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Leisure Batteries

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jake001

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Age : 71
Location : Warrington

Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by jake001 on Wed 20 Mar 2013, 8:10 am

I know very little about battery charging, that was mostly someone else's problem, I was involved more with the electronic and small electro-mechanical side of things. I've always hated modern power supplies though as they are designed to switch off when they go wrong pale (like smart battery chargers) so how do you find the fault when there's no smoke? scratch

navver

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Join date : 2013-01-03

Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by navver on Wed 20 Mar 2013, 9:55 am

Hi Peridot, those diagrams are perfect. They do show the connection to the caravan 12V circuits as well. The habitation relay is a changeover arrangement. Being able to connect to the car at night would be useful if on a long journey, as the car battery will charge much better whilst driving than the leisure battery, due to voltage drop in the cables.

I believe there is or was an issue with trailer safety circuits being connected to the car electrical circuits whilst towing. I think it was outlawed by British regulations. Not sure if the've overcome it now or whether the trailer battery powers them instead.

navver

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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by navver on Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:43 pm

If it helps, IEE regs 17th edition shows:

Pin 9 Continuous power supply
Pin 10 Power supply controlled by ignition switch
Pin 11 Return for core 10
Pin 13 Return for core 9

I guess Pin 9 can also be controlled by a voltage sensing relay instead or as well as the ignition switch)

There is a note that 3, 11 & 13 return circuits should not be connected electrically in the trailer. Pin 3 is the return for the trailer road lights. This would stop any interconnection.

9,10,11 & 13 should be 2.5mm2.
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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 20 Mar 2013, 6:58 pm

navver wrote:Hi Peridot, those diagrams are perfect. They do show the connection to the caravan 12V circuits as well. The habitation relay is a changeover arrangement. Being able to connect to the car at night would be useful if on a long journey, as the car battery will charge much better whilst driving than the leisure battery, due to voltage drop in the cables.

They do show the caravan circuits but there is no means of supplying them from the car. With the engine 'off' the caravan circuits are connected to its own leisure battery. With the engine 'running' they are disconnected (as required) and the leisure battery is connected to the car charging circuit.

I think there needs to be a second changeover contact that, with the car connected but engine 'off', disconnects the caravan leisure battery and connects the circuits to the car's Pin 9 supply. I've looked for a schematic diagram of the full habitation relay system but only found the partial one that I posted.


If it helps, IEE regs 17th edition shows:

Pin 9 Continuous power supply
Pin 10 Power supply controlled by ignition switch
Pin 11 Return for core 10
Pin 13 Return for core 9

Excellent thanks. That's a reliable source at least. I've ordered a copy of the 17th edition to get myself back up to speed on various things.


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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 10:28 pm

Tow Itch wrote: The only thing I would be cross at is an opinion without any supporting evidence (and probably only then if it were silly or meant to troll) I don't want the sort of rubbish that you see if you go to UK Campsite ... where correspondants are either trolling or so thick their death would be no loss to the gene pool.

Tow Itch - I originally though you were being a little harsh in your judgement here ...

... but then I read [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and wept a little Sad

Talk about the blind leading the partially sighted Evil or Very Mad



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Tow Itch
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Tow Itch on Sat 23 Mar 2013, 12:18 am

peridot wrote:
Tow Itch wrote: The only thing I would be cross at is an opinion without any supporting evidence (and probably only then if it were silly or meant to troll) I don't want the sort of rubbish that you see if you go to UK Campsite ... where correspondants are either trolling or so thick their death would be no loss to the gene pool.

Tow Itch - I originally though you were being a little harsh in your judgement here ...

... but then I read [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and wept a little Sad

Talk about the blind leading the partially sighted Evil or Very Mad

Oh you wanton and wicked man you are misquoting me. OK the thread you are referring to you should get better information from searching Google, but then again my major problem with Google is it will refer you to idiots with no sense on a forum far more often than it refers you to works of worth.

What I said was:
Third parties if you can help please do so this is not meant to be a 2 person conversation. If you don't understand a bit do say, this needs to be easily readable eventually.
The only thing I would be cross at is an opinion without any supporting evidence (and probably only then if it were silly or meant to troll) I don't want the sort of rubbish that you see if you go to UK Campsite and search "Reverse Polarity" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] where correspondants are either trolling or so thick their death would be no loss to the gene pool.
I know it has limited interest but all this does take a while to write

The particular threads I referred to where those about reverse polarity. I'm not about slagging off UK Campsite (Though I'm barred from there) I believe everyone should be encouraged. I tried a TV and satellite forum that was mean and nasty unless you were uber savvy. It's disconcerting when someone asks a very basic question without looking at any previous posts or having a quick Google. I may have recently said look at X,Y, and Z but hopefully said come back if you don't understand. If I ever make anyone too embarrassed to ask a question, that would be the worst shame of all for me. Lock me up for been a cohort of Garry Glitter and Jimmy Saville that would be but a small crime against preventing someone from enquiring.
What I had against UK Campsite was the thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this involves people being intentionally stupid or trolls.
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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Sat 23 Mar 2013, 12:43 am

Apologies Tow Itch - I didn't intentionally misquote you. I wrongly assumed you were quoting one example of the type of wrong advice on that site.

I have to say that I've used UKCS a lot in the past and have had lots of help from members there (and would like to think I've contributed usefully too). I haven't used it actively for a while and was rather surprised at the poor quality of advice on a number of threads when I looked tonight. Ok, you'll always get 'misguided' folk posting on any internet forums but it seemed that the sensible ones who could counter the BS had left the house.

Perhaps they've all been banned Very Happy

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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Sat 23 Mar 2013, 5:15 pm

Here's an interesting article on leisure batteries from someone with a lot of knowledge and experience -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



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Tow Itch
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Tow Itch on Sun 24 Mar 2013, 7:14 am

I'd read that piece then couldn't find it again.

Here's the man himself talking about batteries, bear in mind he is looking at batteries for boats but pretty much the same requirements.



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doc

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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by doc on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 3:04 pm

Just a word of warning about carbatteriesonline - mentioned earlier in the thread. Yes, they were competitive on price. But they advertise batteries on their website that they don't have stocks of, but they still take the money. The first you find out is when they say they're awaiting stocks from the supplier! My urgently needed battery is still awaited, some time after ordering, with no immediate prospect of delivery, and the company sitting on my money isn't even able to say when they'll be getting stocks.

Meanwhile, the battery in question is still showing as available on their website, and I imagine they're still taking payments from unsuspecting customers.

I've yet to decide whether this is just inefficiency, or whether it's a scam.
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Tow Itch
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Tow Itch on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 4:17 pm

doc wrote:Just a word of warning about carbatteriesonline - mentioned earlier in the thread. Yes, they were competitive on price. But they advertise batteries on their website that they don't have stocks of, but they still take the money. The first you find out is when they say they're awaiting stocks from the supplier! My urgently needed battery is still awaited, some time after ordering, with no immediate prospect of delivery, and the company sitting on my money isn't even able to say when they'll be getting stocks.

Meanwhile, the battery in question is still showing as available on their website, and I imagine they're still taking payments from unsuspecting customers.

I've yet to decide whether this is just inefficiency, or whether it's a scam.

Hello doc and thanks for your first post.

It's not good if you have had poor service and we're always interested in examples of good and poor service. There is one point I'd raise though. If you had just joined this forum 6 days ago and your first post was full of praise for company X saying how wonderful their product was also how helpful and attentive the customer service we would likely ask why that was your first post or just delete the post.
Examples of someone joining a forum just to give a company a good slagging are somewhat more rare.
If you would like to post any details about your Dandy or more pertinently tell us about your Dandys 12v and charging system. As of course nearly all Dandy systems are one offs. Then we get to know a bit more about you and perhaps anyone thinking of buying a battery might take your warning a little more seriously. As at this point the only other person to mention carbatteriesonline is a poster of established reputation and he had a good service.

If they don't have the battery are you also saying that the company are slow to return or won't return your money or just that they now don't know when they will have the product you sent them money for?
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Helen
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Helen on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 4:28 pm

I'm looking for a battery too, I am considering just going to Go outdoors who have a 100amp on sale for £85.99 ...... is that a good price or not, we haven't shopped about as it's not urgent but if we find one locally at least we know we can return it if we have any problems.

doc

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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by doc on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 4:33 pm

Tow Itch wrote:
doc wrote:Just a word of warning about carbatteriesonline - mentioned earlier in the thread. Yes, they were competitive on price. But they advertise batteries on their website that they don't have stocks of, but they still take the money. The first you find out is when they say they're awaiting stocks from the supplier! My urgently needed battery is still awaited, some time after ordering, with no immediate prospect of delivery, and the company sitting on my money isn't even able to say when they'll be getting stocks.

Meanwhile, the battery in question is still showing as available on their website, and I imagine they're still taking payments from unsuspecting customers.

I've yet to decide whether this is just inefficiency, or whether it's a scam.

Hello doc and thanks for your first post.

It's not good if you have had poor service and we're always interested in examples of good and poor service. There is one point I'd raise though. If you had just joined this forum 6 days ago and your first post was full of praise for company X saying how wonderful their product was also how helpful and attentive the customer service we would likely ask why that was your first post or just delete the post.
Examples of someone joining a forum just to give a company a good slagging are somewhat more rare.
If you would like to post any details about your Dandy or more pertinently tell us about your Dandys 12v and charging system. As of course nearly all Dandy systems are one offs. Then we get to know a bit more about you and perhaps anyone thinking of buying a battery might take your warning a little more seriously. As at this point the only other person to mention carbatteriesonline is a poster of established reputation and he had a good service.

If they don't have the battery are you also saying that the company are slow to return or won't return your money or just that they now don't know when they will have the product you sent them money for?

You make a very fair point, though I have to admit to joining the forum mainly to research leisure batteries a few days back! I appreciated the advice given, I made an order, and I was just feeding back on the problems I've had with this firm. I'm not overkeen on companies that advertise goods they don't have in stock (whilst still taking the money in advance) and I simply thought I'd share that. Others may have had better experiences, but mine are such that I shall in future give this company a wide berth.
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Helen
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Helen on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 4:41 pm

One bad personal experience would also put me off Doc

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fearful wizard

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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by fearful wizard on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 5:15 pm

Talking about bad service (not leisure batteries)
I purchased some small items from a camping firm for only about £6.
After three weeks waiting they told me that it wasn't in stock, i told them i would have my money back and would go somewhere else.
Two days later the goods arrived, and the label had another persons name and address crossed out on the packet. Mad
And recently i bought an outwell cupboard from sss camping supplies, it was sealed, and had not been opened, but two of the zip pulls were broken.
I Contacted SSS Camping supplies and they said they would contact outwell and ask them to send me some.
Outwell told them they do not supply spares to the public.
SSS Camping took some pulls off there stock, and also sent me some spares, and apologized. Smile
Outwell need to sort themselves out, customer service is everything. Pete
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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 6:18 pm

doc wrote:Others may have had better experiences, but mine are such that I shall in future give this company a wide berth.

As I mentioned in the first post I too had trouble with their website with models listed that they could never have stock of as Bosch didn't make them anymore.

Dealing with them over the phone was excellent and the packaging and delivery side of things were perfect. Their packaging system is far superior to Tanya's.

It does annoy me when companies having an online presence don't keep their website up to date regarding stock and availability.

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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 6:27 pm

Helen wrote:I'm looking for a battery too, I am considering just going to Go outdoors who have a 100amp on sale for £85.99 ...... is that a good price or not, we haven't shopped about as it's not urgent but if we find one locally at least we know we can return it if we have any problems.

I assume that's the Numax one Helen? It's £72 delivered from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I've just bought a car battery from them and everything went smoothly. They do have an odd system of packaging using lots and lots of egg boxes. If you know anyone who keeps chickens they'll be happy Very Happy

Personally, I'd go for the saving by mail order but the Go Outdoors price seems reasonably competitive for a shop bought one.
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Helen
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Helen on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 6:54 pm

yes it's the Numax one, we did want a 110 amp battery though ..... would the 10amp make much difference ?
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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 6:58 pm


About 10% tongue
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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:02 pm

Seriously though the accuracy of battery Ah ratings, like so many other claims made about them, is open to question.

What loads will you be using and for how long?
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Helen
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Helen on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:10 pm

It's not for the Dandy, it's for the caravan ..... my daughter wants to borrow it for 5 days and has seen a site without EHU and we know the battery isn't holding it's charge so we need a new one. She has two little ones, the water heater runs on gas or electric as doe's the fridge so that's okay but they'll be using lights, kettle, hairdryer and no doubt the tv will be on a lot and I'm sure they'd rather use the small fan heater rather than the gas fire and blown air heating as it's safer with the little one .... the fire gets hot and she tends to barge past, there's not much space for barging Smile

doc

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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by doc on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:12 pm

peridot wrote:
doc wrote:Others may have had better experiences, but mine are such that I shall in future give this company a wide berth.

As I mentioned in the first post I too had trouble with their website with models listed that they could never have stock of as Bosch didn't make them anymore.

Dealing with them over the phone was excellent and the packaging and delivery side of things were perfect. Their packaging system is far superior to Tanya's.

It does annoy me when companies having an online presence don't keep their website up to date regarding stock and availability.


I agree. What really annoys me (as is the case here) is allowing the transaction to go right through for a battery which they don't have in stock - and which they still can't give any kind of delivery date for. For what it's worth it's a Bosch 105amp L4 Leisure Battery at £84.95 (carbatteriesonline.co.uk/details/__/133/2331/105amp-l4-leisure-battery/) and they don't even know whether they've arrived in the UK yet!

I wonder whether the suggestions I hear that the only thing Bosch make on their batteries is the label are true - they weren't coming from Germany!

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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:19 pm

Well you'll only get lights and TV from the battery. You can get 12 volt hairdryers but they're not much use and will flatten a battery if used a lot.

Any form of heating and cooking appliances will need to be gas, if not on EHU.

If the TV is going to be on a lot I'd say go for the highest capacity battery that will fit in the box - at least 110Ah.

The main danger is damaging the battery, possibly permanently, if it is deeply discharged. The Bosch / Varta ones are supposed to be able to cope with slightly deeper discharge than the cheaper types although I can't verify this, and take all claims of this nature with a small pinch of salt.

With two little ones and a desire for reasonable 'home comforts' a site that has EHU might suit better?


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peridot
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by peridot on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:24 pm

doc wrote:
I agree. What really annoys me (as is the case here) is allowing the transaction to go right through for a battery which they don't have in stock - and which they still can't give any kind of delivery date for. For what it's worth it's a Bosch 105amp L4 Leisure Battery at £84.95 (carbatteriesonline.co.uk/details/__/133/2331/105amp-l4-leisure-battery/) and they don't even know whether they've arrived in the UK yet!

I wonder whether the suggestions I hear that the only thing Bosch make on their batteries is the label are true - they weren't coming from Germany!


That's the one I got from them. From the research I did before buying I believe it's made in Russia!

Most batteries seem to be manufacturered in Eastern Bloc countries. I suspect their environmental legislation may be more suited to the requirements of battery manufacture than that in Germany Cool

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Helen
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Re: Leisure Batteries

Post by Helen on Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:28 pm

Thanks Peridot, I agree about a site with EHU ..... means we don't have to buy a battery just yet lol! the fact they'll have to use the fire will put them off not having EHU

I think for me and John though we will eventually get a 110amp battery as we plan on using sites with no EHU from time to time.

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