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Err ... Hi ... ?

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Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Tue 14 May 2013, 1:35 am

Yup! It is I. If you don't know who I am then just ask around. I've been something of a semi active member of TEOC and the (failing?) campfire chat forums for a couple of years to date. Now I've joined the ranks of the 'stinky' owners.
Mine is a Dandy 4 or 5 from the late 80's - maybe. The jury is still out on that.
As my first outing I went down to the mini meet at Shell Island with it t'other weekend and suffered a blowout at speed which ended up costing me £50 at a local rip-off tyre place.
This set me thinking.
Not the best use of my leedle grey cells.

Where were the original wheels sourced from? Certainly not the perceived 'wisdom' of an early Mini or a Reliant or similar. The rim offset is all wrong! As an experiment I am considering turning them around so that the offset is reversed, although this will mean that the nut cone ends will not be mated to the corresponding indent in the rims holes and the spigot may not line up correctly. IIRC this was a trick used by some boy racer types to give the Classic Minis a wider tracking. How it worked out in practice I do not remember, but at least a Dandy isn't trying to put umpteen horse power through them so this may not be as fraught as it could be.

Your thoughts are invited and more than welcomed.
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Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3183
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Tow Itch on Tue 14 May 2013, 7:00 am

Sir Henry wrote:Yup! It is I. If you don't know who I am then just ask around. I've been something of a semi active member of TEOC and the (failing?) campfire chat forums for a couple of years to date. Now I've joined the ranks of the 'stinky' owners.
Mine is a Dandy 4 or 5 from the late 80's - maybe. The jury is still out on that.
As my first outing I went down to the mini meet at Shell Island with it t'other weekend and suffered a blowout at speed which ended up costing me £50 at a local rip-off tyre place.
This set me thinking.
Not the best use of my leedle grey cells.

Where were the original wheels sourced from? Certainly not the perceived 'wisdom' of an early Mini or a Reliant or similar. The rim offset is all wrong! As an experiment I am considering turning them around so that the offset is reversed, although this will mean that the nut cone ends will not be mated to the corresponding indent in the rims holes and the spigot may not line up correctly. IIRC this was a trick used by some boy racer types to give the Classic Minis a wider tracking. How it worked out in practice I do not remember, but at least a Dandy isn't trying to put umpteen horse power through them so this may not be as fraught as it could be.

Your thoughts are invited and more than welcomed.

Hello Sir Henry how are all at Rawlinson End? For others benefit: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It's good to welcome you here. Now while I might be in awe at your past experience and appreciate your desire to now partake in PVC fetishism I must ask you to wind your neck in a bit or perhaps in your case to get your brother to put his trousers back on. Where you have gone and what you have been may be forever part of you but we made a vow not to be critical of other related forums. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If you were not new here I'd be compelled to remove this post and as a junior moderator others might overrule me and take that action. I'm going for the option of replying to your first post and explaining that the name of the game here is that we all play nicely.
As for anything failing you have been a member of that forum and it appears that while this forum works as a virtual entity our group camping record is such that we might not be able to organise a social event at a beer factory. To quote the lesser known words of a man better than I
Ask not how your forum has failed you but how you have failed your forum
J F Kennedy 20/01/61 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As for your question about the wheels. I have thought that the source of those as well as the original design of the suspension was [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] But I'm not sure of their suspension development now. Rubery owen did press Mini wheels not sure about the Imp wheels and never heard about Reliant wheels on a Dandy. As the Dandy was developed in the mid 1960's where else was a 10" wheel going to come from? Dr Alex Moulton had developed the suspension (Mini Suspension) and got Dunlop to develop the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Not sure about things like the late Reliant regal but the early Regals went from 14" wheels to 13". As for the offsets being wrong I've never measured the offsets on my 1990 Designer as I've never had to replace the wheels but the later "trailer" style wheels look suspiciously like a zero offset item.
The cheap reply would be that if you are having difficulty measuring the difference between a 4 and a 5 I'd not wan't you measuring offsets anyway.
Mine is a Dandy 4 or 5 from the late 80's - maybe. The jury is still out on that
I presume that there is some reason why yours is not obviously a 4, 41/2 or 5 the smaller Dandys with inboard wheels are a few inches different than the standard 4' or 4' 10" is yours some strange sized beast?
We love photos anyway but if yours is an oddity especially so. You won't be able to post photos for the first 7 days but we can send you an email address and we can host your first photos for you.


Last edited by Tow Itch on Sun 19 May 2013, 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jake001

Posts : 340
Join date : 2012-03-10
Age : 72
Location : Warrington

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by jake001 on Tue 14 May 2013, 8:56 am



Welcome Sir Henry, for Tow Itch's benefit I have taken the liberty of downloading the picture of your arrival at Shell Island from "another place". (I have a '95 4wd Emina Very Happy )

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I trust that you are finding PVC easier to erect than your previous canvas cheers You will find as much help and advice as you need here once you get used to our strange ways What a Face

If you want to meet some of us why not visit Woodhall Spa next month, (see under meets), it's only just down the road from you and I'm sure there will be plenty of room for your unusual towing vehicle
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mike
Dandy Owner

Posts : 5172
Join date : 2011-06-12
Age : 69
Location : north east lincs

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by mike on Tue 14 May 2013, 10:04 am

with your first post,dont think i can add anything about other forum chat that Kevin hasn't covered,we dont do it Very Happy i dont think there is an easy answer to the wheel situation so many different types have been used,i have a six on 10inch wheels others seam to be on 12inch.

mike

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Tue 14 May 2013, 11:31 am

I said nothing derogatory about any other forums so I found the slap on the wrist to be a little irritating. What's wrong with the wet lettuce? Run out? However I'm sure that the good people of this forum have more than a sneaking suspicion that other forums may exist somewhere out there on t'interweb and some of them may simply fade away - a kind of 'dying; not with a bang, but with a whimper'! Whether Camp Fire Chat is one of them I couldn't say, which is why I used the question mark after mentioning it. Neither did I mention the possible existence of other forums relating to the ownership of plastic folding campers either positively nor negatively.

For various reasons I will not be using the Dandy on my next outing or two, but will be taking advantage of the towbar fitted to the 'new' Estima. With a few good pics of it I can then get it on eBay and - eventually - off my garden permanently. Then the previous Estima can suffer the same fate. A pity since I've poured so much money, time and effort into making it presentable and roadworthy again. Whether I can make it to the Woodhall Spa meet or not I cannot say at the moment as I already have other club meets that I'm committed to and my income is hardly generous, although I'm not complaining. Hopefully the sale of the caravan and the 'old' Estima will see me a little more financially independent again.

As for the differences between Dandys, I thought it was much more than a subtle measurement. I've only measured mine when folded up ready for the road. Even then it was only so I knew how much bungee rope to buy so that I could replace it on the road/storage cover. In the event I bought 20 metres of 8mm bungee and used less than half of it, so I've got about 12 metres left for other uses. IIRC when folded up for the road mine is 2 metres long X 1.8 metres wide. Just a bit too much for it to fit in my garage without clearing a lot of other stuff out first. Fortunately I intend to do just that as soon as I've shifted the caravan and Shadow off the back garden hard standing.

To get back to the wheel question: I've delved under the wheel arches and even with the spacers on the drums to put the wheels further outboard the clearance on the inside of the tyre wall is hardly generous while the opposite clearance is relatively enormous. I know that some people used to turn their Mini wheels around to give a wider track with less than positive results, but there's a big difference between a self-powered motor vehicle (even an underpowered one like the first 848cc Minis) and a towed trailer that weighs as little as these. Certainly it can't have come out of the factory with this configuration! Anyway, we'll see what happens when it happens.

Sithee around, innit.
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jake001

Posts : 340
Join date : 2012-03-10
Age : 72
Location : Warrington

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by jake001 on Tue 14 May 2013, 12:29 pm

If it's 1.8M wide it's a 5, find the age here:-


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The last two digits of the ser. no. are the date of manufacture (in my case 1990)

Are you sure that the wheels are the same offset? it does seem odd that the inside clearance is different. Are the tyres the same width scratch

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Tue 14 May 2013, 2:36 pm

I've searched all over the camper (apart from underneath) and still cannot find a maker's plate. I'll have another look at the 'A' frame to see if there's a number stamped on it. On mine the spirit levels are where that plate sits and they are woefully incorrect. The lateral one seems to be close enough for most practical purposes, but the longtitudinal one shows the camper to be level when it's painfully obvious that the door end is well below horizontal.

There are slight differences between the 2 current road wheels as the hub cap mounts aren't identical. However the offset seems to the same, with both tyres sitting very close to the inboard wheel arch and leaving a relatively huge gap on the outer arch. Like as not I'll be on the lookout for a couple (3?) better fitting wheels & tyres once I've got the cash from selling the caravan and Estima.
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Helen
Dandy Owner

Posts : 6835
Join date : 2011-06-12

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Helen on Tue 14 May 2013, 2:58 pm

Hi Sir Henry, I remember you as I was pitched next to you and your lovely golden lab a couple of years ago, before you had your Dandy .... nice to see you found our forum sorry to hear about your wheel though. Welcome to the Dandy Campers

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Tue 14 May 2013, 5:07 pm

Thanks Helen. I've still got Yogi and he's just as young at heart as ever despite being over 9 years old. Now I've also got a little dark brown yappy staffy called Charlie. He's just as friendly with people as Yogi, but he can be a bit snappy with other dogs until he gets to know them - assuming he cares to do so.

By the way Jake. Although there isn't a plate on the 'A' frame there is some info stamped directly into the metal. I only found it because I was wearing reading glasses and could just see some regular indentations barely visible through the layers of paint. I'll have sand some of it off to read it better. Also the side struts are far too rusty to see if there's any more info stamped into them. This thick rust will have to be wire brushed off as well before I'll know more.
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Phoenix
Dandy Expert

Posts : 1435
Join date : 2011-09-07
Location : South Norfolk.

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Phoenix on Tue 14 May 2013, 7:46 pm

Hello and Sir Henry.

With regards to the wheels we have just looked at our 6 and its wheels are closer to the inside of the wheel arch than the outside. Don't really see this as a problem as indespension units work straight up and down as opposed to car suspension which works on a camber.
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Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3183
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Tow Itch on Tue 14 May 2013, 10:46 pm

Hello again.
The statements I made about posting in reference to related forum were not meant to be a slap on the wrist they were meant to have 2 purposes:
1) To be instructional. If you don't know the rules to the forum how can we expect you to play the game.
2) Anticipating and easing any hurt on external sites. We made a promise and will stick to it there will be no other forum slagging here In American speak I was was been proactive.
However if one of my duties is to see that we all play nicely then I should be bound even more tightly by that requirement. If I misunderstood your initial post and my reply was harsh enough to be a little irritating then that is not good. Stroppy moderators breed poor posts they don't discourage them. The best moderation is self moderation.
I have had as many posts lifted from here as anyone (bar Mike) and I'd guess not only is it single figures but you could count them on the fingers of one hand.(just)
Preaching bit over with.

Helpful bit (hopefully)

I still stand with the 10" tyres being a Mini speciality. On reflection I can remember unwrapping my spare and the newer wheels are not zero offset.
Your Dandy must be on the cusp of getting the later wheels as it has sheet alloy sides painted with the Dandy logo. I'd like to see the form of the roof and the PVC colour/colours.
The clearance to the inner wall has been discussed before. Nick had some larger and possibly wider wheels. I was a bit dubious about the clearance on the inner wall citing the deflection of the tyre under load. As John(?) pointed out to me tyre deflection occurs at the bottom of the tyre.
I would not go mounting the wheels with the offsets reversed if for no other reason that the profile of the nuts and the wheel will not now match. There is not much torque to be used on 3/8ths studs and some Dandy owners have found that they needed little help to lose wheels. See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

By the way Jake. Although there isn't a plate on the 'A' frame there is some info stamped directly into the metal. I only found it because I was wearing reading glasses and could just see some regular indentations barely visible through the layers of paint. I'll have sand some of it off to read it better. Also the side struts are far too rusty to see if there's any more info stamped into them.
The info stamped into the a frame is all there is.
What side struts?

Most spirit levels are out at purchase. Find level and turn through 1800 when buying.
So even if good then why would you glue a sensitive instrument to a plate that is prone to vibration shock?

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Wed 15 May 2013, 2:16 am

I don't have any pics of the Dandy yet - not that I could post them so far - but there are a handful [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

By side struts I mean the diagonals from the hitch to the frame of the camper's chassis.

Ps. There's only any clearance on the inner edge of the tyres because there are alloy spacers between the wheels and the brake drums. This means that the wheel nuts have far less bite on the threads of the studs. In fact I think that one of them is spinning in its hole, which is partly why I'm considering replacing them all with longer ones.

navver

Posts : 1004
Join date : 2013-01-03

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by navver on Wed 15 May 2013, 9:23 am

Read stamped letters by rubbing chalk over them
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Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3183
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Tow Itch on Sun 19 May 2013, 1:15 pm

As for your question about the wheels. I have thought that the source of those as well as the original design of the suspension was Rubery Owen But I'm not sure of their suspension development now. Rubery owen did press Mini wheels not sure about the Imp wheels and never heard about Reliant wheels on a Dandy. As the Dandy was developed in the mid 1960's where else was a 10" wheel going to come from? Dr Alex Moulton had developed the suspension (Mini Suspension) and got Dunlop to develop the 10" wheel Not sure about things like the late Reliant regal but the early Regals went from 14" wheels to 13".

The suspension was originally the Rubery Owen torsion bar system.


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Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 3:59 pm

I've wire brushed and sanded off all the heavy corrosion and thick layers of paint on the 'A' frame down to the electro-plating or bare metal where the former has been lost and I still cannot find any trace of a frame/chassis number.

Any more guesses as to where it might be?

Ps. As far as I can see all the info stamped onto the hitch was put there by Al-Ko the manufacturers.
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mike
Dandy Owner

Posts : 5172
Join date : 2011-06-12
Age : 69
Location : north east lincs

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by mike on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 5:09 pm

Dont think we have ever known it stamped anywhere else so no,have you rung ian at riva to see if he knows any different.

mike

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 6:04 pm

I'd love to, but who is Ian & what's his phone number?

If he's in Austria/Germany forget it ... I'm not made of money Suspect 
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Phoenix
Dandy Expert

Posts : 1435
Join date : 2011-09-07
Location : South Norfolk.

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Phoenix on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 6:15 pm

Ian the owner of Riva Dandys.

Pretty sure Wigans in England.

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Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 9:13 pm

According to Paul9 it may not even be on Earth!
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Helen
Dandy Owner

Posts : 6835
Join date : 2011-06-12

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Helen on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 9:59 pm

A long shot but some Dandy's ( mainly the newer ones ) have a date inside the gas locker, it's only written on a sticker so you'd be really lucky to find one or to be able to still see the writing. Photo's of the inside may help but will probably only tell us what you already know, mid to late 80's

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by Sir Henry on Sat 29 Jun 2013, 10:38 pm

Sadly the gas locker has disappeared (along with the spare wheel). I'm already (notionally) working on a design for a new one.
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mike
Dandy Owner

Posts : 5172
Join date : 2011-06-12
Age : 69
Location : north east lincs

Re: Err ... Hi ... ?

Post by mike on Sun 30 Jun 2013, 5:28 am

Sir Henry wrote:According to Paul9 it may not even be on Earth!

Ah well what more can be said lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! the definitive answer

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