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Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

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hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 3:18 pm

Having returned from Guernsey I realise the tyres are 20 years old so need replacing.  The current tyres are 145 R10 on 10 " wheels no offset

As you can see from the photos they are fine for height in the mudguards but very close to the edge

(I tried mini wheels with 23mm offset but they rub the chassis where I have added an angle along the bottom to tidy the bottom edge. I've considered wheel spacers but have decided they are too much hassle)

So am I correct thinking 500 10 wheels will be narrower and fit better in the mudguards? Is the width of the tread narrower (120mm rather than 145mm) so they should fit better in the mudguards?  Also are they slightly larger diameter so I will have more ground clearance?

My local tyre place will fit 2 8 ply tyres to my wheels for £48 each or I can buy 2 new wheels complete with 4 ply tyres from Indespension for £41 each. (These are Indespension WT006 on offer £34.50 + VAT)

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Any comments will be gratefully received

Note  Mini wheels come with different offsets. I spent ages messing about with some which when I eventually measured have an offset of 30mm rather than 23mm!  It took me ages to realise the problem
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Retro

Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-09-05

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Retro on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 3:53 pm

We have what I believe are standard 3.5Bx10x23 Mini wheels on ours with no spacers and, with 145/80 R10 tyres, there is an inch and half of clearance between tyre and body tub.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 4:22 pm

Hi Retro yours sound to me as if they're trailer wheels with no offset. I did the following measurements with 145 R10 tyres. Put a straight edge from fattest part of tyre to fattest part of tyre and measure to flange.  

Mini Wheel 1  23mm offset inside 41mm outside 90mm  (Just rubs because I added angle which is why no good to me)
Mini Wheel 2  30mm offset inside 35mm outside 87mm  (No good at all fouls chassis)
Std Trailer Wheel  0mm offset inside 67 outside 67 (Gives 30mm clearance)

Its all a bit confusing. Yours will probably take standard mini wheels 23mm offset which will move them inboard and were the wheels (as I understand it talking to Ian at Riva) originally fitted. But beware I got some with 30mm offset which won't fit!!

If the trailers handy just put a straight edge across the tyre and measure into the outer face of the flange. Its all very confusing!
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Retro

Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-09-05

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Retro on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 6:06 pm

I've just been out and had another look. From measurement (with a cheapo tape) the wheels have a 23.5mm offset. That tallies with the marking on the wheel which is actually 3.5Bx10x24. Note, not 23 as I said in my previous post.

I've photographed a rather manky spare rim of the same type...

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hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 7:17 pm

Hi Retro - well I'm completely baffled as your Dandy 4 looks the same as mine and those wheels in the pictures look like mini wheels.

I've added a 1.5mm thick angle to the bottom to tidy it up which reduces the clearance and on one side a 23mm offset min wheel rotates (just) but on the other it (just) catches the chassis. There is no way I have 1.5" clearance! Without the angle they would both rotate with say 5mm clearance

My drum faces are 40mm from the chassis - I'm wondering what yours are. I think judging by the age mine are the original running units

I did think about putting in spacers but they will need longer wheel bolts and I'd have to disassemble the hubs and disturb the (new) grease seals. Also I'm nervous about getting the wheel bolts out of the brake drums. Its a pity as I already have mini wheels on a boat trailer

Hence my query about 500 tyres - they don't need to be much narrower than the 145. They work as is but narrower would be better
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Phoenix
Dandy Expert

Posts : 1435
Join date : 2011-09-07
Location : South Norfolk.

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Phoenix on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 9:24 pm

On Phoenix, which is an orange 4 the same as yours we are using the original wheels and original suspension units. The wheels we are using are these, which are old style Mini wheels.

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We are using trailermax 145R 10 tyres. We have just measured and worked out that the wheels have a positive offset of 23.5mm. With these tyres and rims we have about 3/4" clearance between the tyre and the chassis.

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Hope this helps, if you want any more measurement of the wheels it will have to be tonight or in a weeks time as we have packed our 6 berth "Dylan" and will be away for a week as from tomorrow. Very Happy
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Retro

Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-09-05

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Retro on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 9:36 pm

One difference I can see is that our 4 has cable brakes. I'm beginning to think that it must be a late 'orange' model. Unless I am mistaken, the chassis number ends in 82.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 9:46 pm

I'm pretty sure there is no gap on mine between the swinging arm and chassis like yours Phoenix. ie the shaft that fits into the rubbers is pressed further home but I'll check tomorrow. I've got rod brakes like phoenix. Does anyone have any comments on the 500 wheels? I think my angle is just offsetting it all to much. Thanks a lot for all your comments

navver

Posts : 995
Join date : 2013-01-03

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by navver on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 10:00 pm

Bear in mind you may have had new suspension fitted at some time by a previous owner unbeknown to you. It may have been fitted to suit the wheels they had with no offset.
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Phoenix
Dandy Expert

Posts : 1435
Join date : 2011-09-07
Location : South Norfolk.

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Phoenix on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 10:17 pm

Retro wrote:One difference I can see is that our 4 has cable brakes. I'm beginning to think that it must be a late 'orange' model. Unless I am mistaken, the chassis number ends in 82.
We think Phoenix is from the mid 70's, we never found any numbers on her at all. The only clue was 1976 on her original Tilley Talisman cooker pipe.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 13 Sep 2013, 11:15 pm

No numbers on mine either. I think the suspension is probably original but that I've reduced the clearance with the angle bit I'll check tomorrow.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Sun 15 Sep 2013, 8:25 pm

Update. Phoenix there is far less clearance at the swinging arm on mine. The shaft that comes out of the rubbers doesn't protrude like yours.  I forgot camera tonight. I suspect there was around 5 - 10mm clearance before I put the angle on but now there is none. I have got some mini rims off freecycle and will put 145 R10 tyres on them. I am going to put 20mm spacers on the drums (with longer bolts) and that should solve it all and give me 20mm clearance. Retro thank you for your interest.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Fri 20 Sep 2013, 5:52 pm

Job done with 20mm spacers off ebay. The first lot of studs they sent were too long but I swapped them easily and it all now looks fine. As its only a light trailer and I won't be doing aggressive cornering I'm trusting that the spacers will have a minimal effect on the bearings but I always carry the old ones just in case! Thank you everyone - it was supposed to be a 5 minute job! I think I will carry the spare in a bag under the cover as apart from it leaving minimal clearance I'm not sure how I'd get it off in the road there's so little room!

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Sir Henry on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 2:06 pm

As I've posted elsewhere the Classic Mini wheels on my Dandy had such a serious offset that the inner tyre sidewall rubbed on the inner wheel arch (inboard arches). It was so bad that it destroyed one of the tyres that were on when I bought it, and a few weeks later did the same to the £50 replacement tyre. This was despite there being about 10mm of spacing on each side. Fortunately I was able to track down a scrap yard which supplied and fitted 2 used Mini wheels with brand new tyres for £80 the pair. I've kept one of the original wheels as a spare since the original one had disappeared somewhere along the chain of owners since Elliwellie & hubby parted with it.

Even so, I had barely covered 25 miles when I noticed that thick smoke was coming off both new tyres. The were rubbing on the inner arch again affraid As a stopgap I turned the wheels around so the offset became and inset. Fortunately there was still enough room for the tyres to clear the outer edge of the arch. Since than I've sourced and fitted a pair of 25mm spacers along with a set of stud extenders. I could have fitted longer studs, but the splines in some of the holes have been corroded/ground away so new studs still spin in the drum. With a lot of effort and using Mole grips I've been able to 'lock off' the loose studs with the extenders so that they don't spin any more.

Ps. The tyres were "Colway" remoulds. This company went bust many years ago because their small sized remoulds were so bad that nobody would touch them and the name became synonymous with zero quality. I had one blow out catastrophically on my caravan within 25 miles of first fitting it! I hadn't even bothered to check the make before fitting it. On that occasion it cost me a lost night's camping, 2 new tyres, a used inner wheel arch liner, a couple of square feet of flooring and even some destroyed electrical wiring (12 volt only).

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 2:16 pm

Hi Sir Henry - it sounds like we've had a similar experience. I'm solved with the spacers now and did 160 miles last weekend without any problems. (that is to say apart from the jockey wheel falling down!!!)

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Sir Henry on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 2:25 pm

Since fitting the spacers I've covered well over 1,000 miles with no problems. I'm now in the middle a complete refurbishment of the interior and exterior. Once I've finished it I will take a raft of pics along with details of the improvements I've made to the wee cowering timorous beastie  
I doubt I'll be using it again this year, but one can only hope that the opportunity will arise before the weather breaks.

hannah3dog

Posts : 75
Join date : 2012-07-26

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by hannah3dog on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 2:46 pm

Hi Sir Henry - Have you got a picture?
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Retro

Posts : 41
Join date : 2013-09-05

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Retro on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 5:12 pm

Sir Henry wrote:Ps. The tyres were "Colway" remoulds. This company went bust many years ago because their small sized remoulds were so bad that nobody would touch them and the name became synonymous with zero quality. I had one blow out catastrophically on my caravan within 25 miles of first fitting it! I hadn't even bothered to check the make before fitting it. On that occasion it cost me a lost night's camping, 2 new tyres, a used inner wheel arch liner, a couple of square feet of flooring and even some destroyed electrical wiring (12 volt only).
Interesting what you say about the small size Colway remoulds. Colway were very highly regarded in 4x4 and motorsport circles. Their demise created serious problems for some events because Colways were the only approved tyre.

I have had a set of 235/85R16 Colway mud terrain tyres on my Land Rover for the last ten years or so and, despite frequent abuse, on and off road, they have been excellent. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set if they were still available.

Sir Henry

Posts : 71
Join date : 2013-04-23

Re: Tyres Wheels for old Yellow Dandy 4

Post by Sir Henry on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 10:49 pm

hannah3dog wrote:Hi Sir Henry - Have you got a picture?
There are a couple of pics here

Retro wrote:
Interesting what you say about the small size Colway remoulds. Colway were very highly regarded in 4x4 and motorsport circles. Their demise created serious problems for some events because Colways were the only approved tyre.

I have had a set of 235/85R16 Colway mud terrain tyres on my Land Rover for the last ten years or so and, despite frequent abuse, on and off road, they have been excellent. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set if they were still available
That's why I specified the smaller sizes of tyres. Like you I found the larger sizes of 4X4 tyres to be of an excellent quality. Unfortunately it was a lack of attention to detail and quality control in the sub 14" sizes that poisoned the name.

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