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    Gas Struts On Beds

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    Tow Itch
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    Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  Tow Itch on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:34 pm

    This is the start of a topic for Gas Struts On Beds.

    I got into a conversation about gas struts whilst in parallel I was thinking that they were a necessary tool for single handed erection.  

    There has been quite a bit written about beds and gas struts but I think some of the basics have not been addressed.

    I am intending to write a number of emails to various gas strut companies and some of the principals in Dandy diy gas strut design.

    So allowing for the possibility that some of you know more than me (not difficult) here are my basic design questions?

    If all the instructions for gas struts say fit with the body uppermost why has everyone done the opposite other than the German builder and the diy Destiny bed struts?

    What happens if we change the offsets for the fixing of the mounting points? The dimensions on the diagram shown in the Yahoo group show 330mm out from the hinge point on the bed and 170mm down on the body. The picture of bed and strut system with failed rivets  highlighted seems to use differing dimensions much more like an equidistant spacing?

    Why do we space the strut positions in the same way on both sides or indeed use the same struts? The LHS (upper) bed has the strain of pulling the whole roof across as well as the bed the RHS (lower) bed is erected with the roof bar sliding beneath the roof. When I get to quoting details to a gas strut supplier does anyone know the weight of the  bed frame (with or without bed) and the roof?
    I see the the Destiny and Dimension struts are mounted asymmetrically. Indeed the rear ones lie with the bed end lower than the body.

    Are Rover 25 standard struts universally considered to be inadequate?

    The self made mounting brackets are actually a difficulty or an expense. What is the corner construction of the body like where the bracket attaches? Does it have insufficient strength to allow mounting on one face only? Likewise the bed, rather than spacing from the upright in the "I" section what about a plate on the the base extending outwards? The bed hinges from it's base so if anything it's equalising the forces.Though this would Slightly decrease the force on a bed to be unfolded, and increase the lifting force on the extended bed and increasing the need for a catch to hold the extended bed down. This statement is in error the bed hinges at the top of the bed so if one end of the gas strut was joined there it would decrease the force on the bed in its folded position but would further increase the force on the unfolded bed. A fixing point as high (on the opened bed) as possible would tend to equalise the push on the bed in folded and unfolded states but that brings it's own problems of possible gaps and draughts from the bat wing.    

    I want to illustrate this but can't lift pictures and diagrams from word documents. I can open in "Open Office" but cant copy pictures or diagrams. If you can please PM me and send the copies through that media or if needs be I'll forward my email address for you to then post to.
    Think I've got something wrong? Got more questions? Anything else? Please comment this is my opening attempt at a work in progress, hopefully it can all be cut and pasted to provide a definitive guide in the end.
    Though pictures and ideas are coming from a variety of sources the majority of the details come from files in the Yahoo site


    Last edited by Tow Itch on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:06 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Got the affect of moving a bracket the wrong way round.)

    John

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    Age: 67

    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:32 pm

    Having fitted gas struts, I fitted them body upwards this keeps the gas on the seal and stops them drying out.
    On the question of the position of the struts,I ignored the info on the yahoo site and set them equal distance , that is to say when the bed is the upright position the strut is equal amount either side of the hinge, I did use the rover ones and found them up to the job making erection quite easy single handed.
    p.s. the info on the yahoo site that says compress the strut is wrong and fool hardy, the strut is fitted at its longest stroke, and that is when the bed is upright, and it then gets compressed when opened and shut.

    fearful wizard

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  fearful wizard on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:40 am

    John wrote: Having fitted gas struts, I fitted them body upwards this keeps the gas on the seal and stops them drying out.
    On the question of the position of the struts,I ignored the info on the yahoo site and set them equal distance , that is to say when the bed is the upright position the strut is equal amount either side of the hinge, I did use the rover ones and found them up to the job making erection quite easy single handed.
    p.s. the info on the yahoo site that says compress the strut is wrong and fool hardy, the strut is fitted at its longest stroke, and that is when the bed is upright, and it then gets compressed when opened and shut.


    Would there be any chance of you posting some photo's next time you use her.
    The way you have explained it, i think is the way i would do it.
    So you mount the struts when the bed is in the upright position and the struts are fully extended.
    you mount the struts an equal distance on the bed frame and on the body.
    So the struts are full extended when the bed is upright, and fully closed when the bed is closed and when the bed is open. Surprised

    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:28 pm

    That is it exactly, just make sure when the beds are upright the struts at not under any pressure at all

    Tow Itch
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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  Tow Itch on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:39 pm

    I'm still waiting for replies on this and will no doubt be asking more questions when the professionals get back.
    I fear I may have castigated Riva unfairly. I'm not sure the strut is mounted uppermost. I think there may be a cover over the strut so I'm looking at things the wrong way round. Photos of struts known to be fitted by Riva are a bit rare. Do you have struts fitted by Riva? Can you put me straight?
    People like John leave me in awe. I might learn what is required to do a job but doing it is a different thing.
    A job done beats knowing what to do but not achieving it any day.
    My initial thoughts are that there will have to be some pressure on the strut at maximum extension. If not the folded Dandy will leave too much strut extended. About 70% of the struts total length will still be extended. Or with my rudimentary maths that's what I think anyway. What I think isn't too important I got my questions asked in my first email. So come on before I get my first lot of questions replied to prime me with more questions?

    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:01 pm

    [url=http[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/ur[url=http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=6&u=16969863][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]l]://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=4&u=16969863][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/url]

    Tow Itch
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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  Tow Itch on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:22 pm


    Brilliant.
    They look like commercially available brackets.
    That's far better than using home made ones and home made ones are more possible for me than many as I can weld.
    The lower bracket just bent?
    The upper bracket standard with a suitable alloy spacer?

    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:27 pm

    All purchased, just had to make a spacer for the top ones

    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:01 pm

    Just to be clear the bent brkt is a standard 90 deg bracket, all from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] SGS-ENGINEERING .COM

    fearful wizard

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  fearful wizard on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:43 pm

    Great to see some pictures john, can you tell me which struts you purchased?
    Are they the adjustable type where you let the gas out gradually till you get the right pressure. Pete Smile

    Helen
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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  Helen on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am

    Having seen John struts in action ........... they are fantastic, the beds are a doddle to lift. His raised and upgraded suspension is excellent too. A very helpful gent with brilliant knowledge and skills.


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    mike
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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  mike on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:13 am

    Just redone john's link hope its the right place [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


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    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:03 pm

    The struts are off a rover 25, if you get them from scrap yard make sure you get the spring clips with them, they are what hold it on to the ball.

    John

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    Re: Gas Struts On Beds

    Post  John on Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:51 pm

    Having given more thought to this, what is needed is a new approach. A cam action that holds the bed down when closed and down when opened, at the moment the bed tends to lift from the thrust of the strut, a simple cam action would solve this similar to what a car uses , there is a point in travel that holds the boot shut and a little lift from the user and it lifts open, that is the answer. It may prove a can of worms owning to the hinge not being engineered to suit the force that will be placed on it, or indeed the weld on the bed frames, but hey why not give it a go, mine works at the moment do I need to progress this to a higher level, in theory at least I will have a go, but I do not think a dandy in it present state could handle the forces generated without costly changes to the hinge and re-enforced welds to the bed sections, it may prove a bridge too far

    yorkie

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    . Gas struts on beds

    Post  yorkie on Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:42 pm

    Hi John, I like your gas struts. What size ball end is needed with the Rover 25 struts, 8 or 10mm?
    Cheers,
    Dave

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